Feel the Good Conversation, Episode 3, Dr. Jason Campbell
Thank you so much for visiting the Feel the Good podcast website. This is the transcript of my FTG conversation with Dr Jason Campbell. My apologies if it has a few typos in it or the grammar is off. I tried my best to comb through it to make it as accurate as possible. I do use a program that helps me transcribe so it might be off here or there, but overall it’s so very close to our conversation. Hope you enjoy it and please feel free to contact me should you have any questions or more suggestions on how I can make it easier for you if you can’t listen to the podcast.
Shawl
(INTRO) Welcome to Feel the Good with Shawl Hey everybody, I'm Shawl. Welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited that I was able to get the Tik Tok Doc for one of my first episodes of Feel the Good. I'm going to go into a little bit about Dr. Jason Campbell in a second, I'm so excited. But before that, you know I always open the show with something that I'm grateful for this week. And I'm going to give y'all a second to think about something that you're grateful for. And then I will share mine.
Shawl
So, look, I have a doctor on the show. I gotta say that I am super grateful and thankful to our healthcare professionals are essential workers. That's a given. I know all of us listening are so grateful and so thankful for their service and what they're doing right now, especially in the time that we're in, but regardless, they are essential to our country's well being and our health and they're so so important and I know all of us are incredibly grateful to them. On those same lines, lines, I'm really grateful that my family's in good health. No one that I'm very close to has yet become sick, thank goodness, not with COVID not with anything. They're all in really good health. My dad is a senior, he's in his 80s. And he's still with me. And granted when I say still with me, he is one of the most, he's one of the healthiest people I know. And I am just in awe of him in terms of that, and I hope that I get those genes and I inherited those genes, and he works hard at it too. And he's really healthy person. And speaking of doctors, he's also a doctor too. So I'm so so grateful that you know, he gave so much of himself to his patients and to our family. And that I always have somebody that I can ask medical advice from so I'm just sooo grateful for that I'm so grateful that my daughter is healthy and well because that's one of the number one things that I know if there are parents listening that you want for your children is to be healthy and not to have any sort of compromising health conditions. And so I'm really really grateful and thankful that everyone in my life is is healthy and strong and knock on wood. So far, so good. I would love to hear what you're grateful for. I know I say this every episode now but i would i would love to hear from you. So if you want to share with me what you thought of that you're grateful for or if you want to share with me any of the thoughts that you might have after this conversation with Dr. Jason Campbell, please do reach out to me on my website, shawlinivmh.com or you can find me on social media. You can shoot me a DM really, I will want to hear from you guys, I want to make this a community where it's a conversation with everyone.
Shawl
We are all in this together, I want us all to be a part of Feel the Good. So please do share with me any thoughts you have, I would love to hear them. And also please do share what you're thinking about the show on Apple podcasts, please do rate and review on there because the more people that rate and review on Apple podcasts, the more people find the show and since it's a new podcast, and it's my new one, I would really, really appreciate it and be so thankful, so grateful and subscribe so you don't miss any of these conversations. It'll just come straight, directly to you. Easy like magic. So definitely subscribe and do a rating review for me, please. Now. As I mentioned, I'm really really pumped about having Dr. Jason Campbell on the show today because he's the tick tock doc. I literally watch his videos all the time. If you have not watched his videos, oh my gosh, you have to. I posted one one of my favorites that we do chat about. He's dancing with a bunch of labor and delivery nurses and man, how I would have loved to have all of them be a part of my delivery experience because I guarantee you, they would have cheered me in times of anxiety or nervousness during that process. Even though the end result obviously it was full of joy. But he is always bring in that happiness and joy with his videos. But he is also a resident in the department of anesthesiology in Portland. He is using his platform to connect with young people and to lift up underrepresented members of the medical community. We talk about that and sort of his mission behind that and he also speaks on topics on his personal blog. About overcoming adversity, black men in medicine, mental health. And again, we cover so much of that in this conversation. It really is such a special one because it will uplift you. It will make you feel happy. He has such great energy and also some really great gems in this conversation, which at the end, I will sort of spotlight some of the ones that resonated with me that hopefully perhaps jumped out at you too. So this is my Feel the Good conversation with Dr. Jason Campbell, The Tick Tock Doc. (ENDINTRO)
Shawl
(START INTERVIEW) So, Dr. Jason Campbell, I it's funny because I think people are gonna hear the giddiness in my voice right now because I am so thrilled to have you on. Thank you so much for agreeing to chat with me. You make me happy. You just make me happy.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Well, 1.) I appreciate you too. It is my absolute pleasure to be here. So thank you.
Shawl
Oh my gosh, well, you know, and everybody knows you as the Tik Tok Doc. And like I said, you know, it just makes me happy watching your videos. It makes me feel good. I'm sure you've heard that from so many people. I've seen you been doing the morning show rounds, and people are just loving what you're creating. So I just want to start with finding out how it all got started for you. How did you even decide to be the Tik Tok Doc?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, you know, I think some things in life kind of come to you. You decide on maybe, oh, I just want to do one thing. I just want to showcase some dance moves and make people smile. And then other things come to you. So for me it was when I was having a conversation with a medical student. And I just asked her I said, Hey, you know, how do you think I can reach out to the community Especially the black youth, but how can I connect with them? Cuz I knew she said she had a daughter and a sister in high school I think when my high school so they do this Tik Tok thing. I'm like, What is this? The way our parents look at us and say, you know, what's, Snapchat? What's Instagram? I was looking at her. And she's like, this is how you can connect with the youth. And so I said, Okay, I'll give it a go. And I'll try to learn another platform. And the rest is history.
Shawl
So connect with the youth, why would you want to do that?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. So for me, it was. I've seen just so many people that you know, they want to be famous, but they don't want to study anymore. They have these lofty goals and sometimes not recognizing that level of work that goes into that. And then especially as a young black male physician, there's few of us and it's rare. And so for me, I said, Hey, I want, I need to get more black men and young black boys to recognize that they can be doctors as much, if not more than they can be an athlete, a professional athlete or anything of that nature. And so I said, I got to connect with this group and you know, I owe it to my community, I owe it to those that looked out for me to get me where I am today.
Shawl
I love that. I love that it wasn't just about sort of having fun and making these videos which are fun, and they bring a lot of joy to people, but also there's a mission behind it for you, essentially.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Absolutely. There's a mission and like I said, I started it with a purpose and then this was before COVID-19 and then you know, with COVID-19 and Coronavirus, it kind of that it was multifaceted. People were like, Hey, this is uplifting us while we're in the hospital. This is uplifting us across the country. This is the only reason I have smiled today. I'm alone my family cannot come visit me because I'm at high risk and your videos get me through the day. So a lot of humbling and very surprising but really touching messages.
Shawl
Oh, I love that so much. I want to dive into that a little bit more later, but to keep going on sort of the videos. I mean, so I mean has there been one that's been the most powerful Because I know, I mean, 1000 miles is one that's pretty popular. Cha Cha. I posted to my own account because it just makes me so happy. And I wish you guys, I wish you all were there with me when I had my daughter, but the one that you did in labor and delivery. That was fun. Show me your rolly show.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, yeah, that was fun. Yeah, you know, the, you know, I think that the cha cha slide that one. I mean, that was like a Friday evening we were all exhausted had just finished like, I was like a ham. I do this cha cha slide with Dr. Gillman. And then our pharmacists was like I'm in the or nurses like I'm in and then next you know, it's like poof, and and Ooh, na na na with Nurse Grace, our favorite Asian American nurse. That was awesome. That was awesome. So I think that those have had five plus million views on Tik Tok and seen worldwide and other avenues.
Shawl
Oh my gosh, that's incredible. So do your colleagues. I mean, it sounds like some of them absolutely, are down to join. Have you ever had any that are like a little nervous about doing it that you sort of get them, you cajole them into doing it?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Sure. I think like Dr. Mike Aziz, who's the guy that everybody loves, who's Egyptian and people love seeing him. And if they know him, you know, he's kind of a quiet guy, you know, smiles occasionally means well, but just isn't the most smiley. He's not the Tik Tok Doc. So getting him in there, and you know, spraying stuff and just having fun. It's really, people love that. Like, this is somebody like, I didn't know he could smile, let alone dance. So yeah, I think that it's a guy like that and some others that you kind of, you know, twist their arm a little bit but it's nice having people that want to that want to join in. We have some salsa, we have some Latina stuff coming up coming Latina Latina stuff coming up in a few days here. So one of the cardiology fellows is like, let's do it. So here we go.
Shawl
I, I just love that because I think too, you know, and, you know, to I'm sure you've heard maybe some critics that Like, well, medicine is serious. And you know, it's a serious time. But what I really appreciate about your colleagues being in it with you is that it really shows this sense of community, that you and your colleagues and that a hospital environment is, right? Because everybody's collaborating together. Everybody's always working together. My dad was a doctor. And so I got to experience that growing up that I mean, the nurses are so heavily involved, there's admin staff that are so heavily involved like everybody is working together. So that's what I love about when you dance with your colleagues that it sort of shows that community
Dr. Jason Campbell
I love the way you put that I think I've used a lot of different verbs and adjectives to describe it, but I don't know if I've ever talked about community but I think that that's why people the videos that typically do the best are the ones that have been some of my colleagues in it. You know, like the one that I did that thousand miles alone. You're like, Okay, this guy can get down but the other ones are more, more popular.
Shawl
And you also did one with a cancer patient, Tia Stokes.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, yes. Yes.
Shawl
Can you talk a little bit about that? Did you guys connect before making that or
Dr. Jason Campbell
No. We have connected since But no, I I saw her story She's fighting leukemia. She has her own family believes she's a wife and a mother. And has been I think this is like day 75 for her in and out of the hospital mostly in you know, you know how that is and using dance with the nurses and some of the staff just to get her through her day. And so I saw this, I said, Well, I'm going to use a little function to duet and duet with her and then see what happens from there and we've collaborated, we're going to work together on some other ones. So it's been great. I mean, like I said, I know personally how cancer can be for those and then professionally obviously I've seen it many times and it's it's devastating, but to see her say you know what, I have medical treatments but I have smiling, I have dancing and that also is a treatment. I'm like, I'm right on board.
Shawl
I mean, yeah, especially when you're faced with such a grave illness, right? Like, you hear all the time that when people can uplift their spirits, that does so much for your body, you know, health wise too. So, you know, I loved that you guys did that together and of course, her as a role model for that to say, you know, I am going through all these things, but I am still going to dance it out. Because, you know, dancing it out does make you feel good.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Absolutely. And that feeling good is such a big part of life of health and have success and all in all the different you know, kind of ways you can think of that and so, yeah, I mean, I see her she helped us my spirit, so I can uplift her spirit. It is a it is a symbiotic relationship. So she's, you know, I wish her nothing but the best and she's a special person.
Shawl
Well, you know, you're a very special person too. And I first want to say and I think You don't mind if I call you Jason right? Or you
Dr. Jason Campbell
I insist that you call me Jason
Shawl
Okay, or the Tik Tok Doc I can call you.
Dr. Jason Campbell
No, Jason's great.
Shawlini Manjunath-Holbrook
Ok, Jason's great. good. Okay. Well, Jason, I firstly want to say thank you for your service and for being a part of our healthcare system being on the front lines during this time. You know, one of the positives, I think, that has come out of the pandemic, weirdly is that people are realizing how essential, there are certain jobs in this world that are essential to our society. Obviously, doctors being one of them, teachers, grocery store workers, delivery workers --
Shawl
custodial workers, environmental services, especially in the hospital I mean, cafeteria workers it's, incredible.
Shawlini Manjunath-Holbrook
The nurses So again, I just want to go and say because I have you, thank you so much. Thank you for for doing that. And also for On top of that uplifting our spirits and making these videos, which makes me feel so good, but I want to talk a little bit about your background and you're an anesthesiologist, right?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. anesthesiology resident.
Shawl
In Oregon?
Dr. Jason Campbell
in Oregon, in Portland. Yep.
Shawl
Okay, so I'm curious with anesthesiology, I was thinking about it I was like, well, he's such an effusive personality it seems like that i'm curious that path as to you know, that specific medical field but then I thought you're also super warm. And I don't know, I get so nervous if I have to go under so maybe having someone that you can connect to is important.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Exactly. I think I wrote about it on my blog when like with the importance of five minutes and and i think that you nailed it. It's just you know, if you know you're about to go under anesthesia, which is hardly more scary or the scariest aspect of surgery because if you have some really great surgeon, he's done this type of surgery, you know, hundred times this year, your number one you're like, Okay, this surgery piece is going to go straight forward, I just want to make sure that I go to sleep and I wake up and everything's working the way it was supposed to with my brain and all my you know, functioning organs and things of that nature. And so for us to say we have 10 minutes to connect to someone 10 minutes to make them feel comfortable to make your loved ones feel that they can trust us. That takes a special person that takes a special personality type. And so for me, yes, I could talk to you all day. But hopefully I can also make you feel comfortable within 10 minutes that you're like, Hey, he's gonna take care of me as if I was his sister or his mother, or his best friend. And, so that's, I think, a God given talent. And that's why one of the main reasons I chose this field.
Shawl
That's so beautiful because too, I mean, you know, there are some surgeries that do that don't work out, right. And so you're actually probably one of the last faces, perhaps someone sees and so to have that calming energy and to have that sort of going into, you know, eternal rest is probably also a really lovely gift that you give someone.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. When we step back and realize how special our roles are. It's, it's incredible. Yeah, I don't take it for granted. And, you know, someone's just asked me like, you know, you're always going to be pretty happy. And I'm like, it's perspective, you know, perspective is and can be a superpower and how we look at things, and I'm just very appreciative to be here. It's been a long journey. And so yeah, I just think like, wow, all the wonderful things I get to do on a day to day basis and the wonderful people I get to meet, and treat and care for, it's amazing.
Shawl
Now, where did you, tell me a little bit about where you grew up? You said that also, you know, you started this because there weren't that many black men in medicine. Did you have any people in your family that were doctors, a medical professional, sort of tell me about your background and where you grew up and how you got into this?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in northwest Washington, DC grew up in an affluent Black community and neighborhood Although I did attend predominately white private school, K through 12 Georgetown day school in the district, and then I grew up to two loving parents and then there was my sister. And so my sister's birthday is actually tomorrow. If you can believe it, she's turning 28 still my little baby sister and then my parents, my dad's great. he's a he's a lawyer. By by degree, my mom is actually a research epidemiologist and by degree and was actually the first black female PhD epidemiologist in the country.
Shawl
Really?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. So she's, she's a real real force to be reckoned with. And so--
Shawl
That's pretty amazing role model.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Exactly. Exactly.
Shawl
in your, in your, you know, directly related to you.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Right, absolutely. And when I was growing up, she was a director of the Howard University Cancer Center. For most of my younger days, I think especially from maybe when I was five, six up till when I left for college. And so in this role, I got a chance to see leadership. I got chance to see tenacity, perseverance. And then the most important thing I saw at Howard University was the mecca or really one of the pioneer and principal places where black positions were being created and sculpted and trained and made. And everyone at Howard University was incredible. And they were all different shades of black and brown and their physicians, clinicians, researchers, leaders, administrators, everything I mean, sort of grew up in that you're like, this is incredible, you know, and this is not abnormal. This is normal. And so that showed me right then in there, like okay, this is what you want to do. This is what you want to strive for. And then you need to create an environment as much as you can, where other young black boys can see this and can experience this and can know that this is not abnormal, but this is normal and a goal that they should desire to achieve and that they should seek.
Shawl
Because obviously you're saying that a lot of young black men or black women might not see that they might not have had the experience that you had, where you got to see that firsthand and say, Oh, I see you, you know and even me as a as a, you know, Indian American, I'm an actress. If you don't see yourself, if you don't see the job that you want to do with someone that looks like you, you might not think it's attainable, you might not think it's there for you.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Exactly. And I and you know, I know I talk a lot about young black boys, but it goes for young black girls and black women as well. That I I put my mother's story out there so that they can see. And then I speak to young black boys to my story and to my father's story, right. My father was one of eight, only when to go to college and his family. dad couldn't read or write, you know, and that his son becomes a physician, I mean, and his daughter interior design and architect. I mean, it's incredible that the path that he changed, if you will, the trajectory that we could have been on that he said wait a second. This is I want more for my children than I had for myself growing up and even Later in life so very special to me to grow up in that household and then to be able to have those as as guiding lights even to this day.
Shawl
And I know,I before this interview I read that you went to Ohio State University for medical school,
Dr. Jason Campbell
The Ohio State! No I'm just teasing you. Yep, Ohio State Medical School. Yep.
Shawl
Oh, that's so cool. I'm very well acquainted with the Buckeyes in this house
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yep. Good.
Shawl
So no stranger to them. But I'm curious in your medical school class, and in residency, were there a lot of black students in your class? I mean, being Asian again, South Asian, I think if I were to guess they're probably a lot of South Asians, perhaps like we're actually not a minority when it comes to the healthcare profession in terms of the in terms of nurses and doctors, but
Dr. Jason Campbell
I love that. Yeah, there were actually. I chose Ohio State because it was the best medical school I got into but then recognize that we had like 20% underrepresented minorities 20 to 22%, upon starting, and then about 51% women in the class, which was another milestone, and it was the 100th entering college of medicine class, so that was special, because we entered 2014 and they started in 1914. And then, when we graduated, I graduated with, I think nine other African American men, which was super special all across the country, from psychiatry to pediatrics, to me in anesthesiology, to some surgeons to some ear, nose and throat surgeons. I mean, very, very skillful, very talented and a very diverse group of young men. And so to be along this journey with them, it's not that we talked every day or anything of that nature, but you know, we had so much connectivity and communication and just seeing their success push me to get my own.
Shawl
That's beautiful. You know, but when you say 10 that doesn't sound like a lot...
Dr. Jason Campbell
I know but you know, but 10 other brothers in a medical school class and I mean, it's a class out of about 195 200. So you're right. It's not a huge amount, but then we still had a few women of color as well, I think maybe five. So we had more, we had more African American men for sure. But I mean, that's huge. You know, most classes I'm seeing these days are graduating one or two, maybe five, you know, definitely can normally fit on one hand. So these are minor victories that we have to take every day. You know?
Shawl
absolutely. No, I was just gonna say that. I know. I sounded like oh, that's not a lot but I do want to celebrate that but also that we do have some room to go. Is there something in your opinion why you think that there's not more? Is it because of access is as access an issue? Is representation an issue? What what In your opinion, is the issue?
Dr. Jason Campbell
I think the issue is access, is lack of representation. I think lack of mentoring, you know, people get put off this track early on, there are some pre med advisors that really believe if you don't have a 4.0 MCAT in the 95th percentile and have gone to the moon to save dolphins and bring them back that without doing all that you're not an acceptable medical school applicant. I mean, it's frustrating to say the least. And so because of that, that's what I would say is that one of the main reasons why we're having this issue and then the pipeline right, you know, third fourth grade of young black boys are falling off track, there's no they haven't getting being on a track for medicine. It's a tough track, let alone if you're already falling off track. So I think there's a there's, a there's a multitude of things there.
Shawl
Well, and I mean, again, just you know, to reiterate how special your profession is, it does take such resiliency, it takes such hard work day in and day out for years. I mean, you're giving up a lot of you know, all of my friends who I've watched go through it and if they want specialty then it's extra years and, you know, they give up a lot of their personal life to devote to this.
Dr. Jason Campbell
You do. And I think that you try to ask what would I have been doing? If not, you know, how would I have spent those years? Yeah, we just spent them on wall street or banking and going to happy hours, you know, maybe but what our patients give us and what the specialty and this community give us are something that you cannot trade for the world. I mean, it's, it's, it's incredible. It really is. And I agree with you, though, it's, you give up a lot, but you just try every year to live life. You know, I think if you try to put things on hold, that's a mistake. You just try to live life as much as you can every single year, every single month, every single day. And then you look back you say, hey, I've had a pretty good life. I've done a lot of things. I've met a lot of cool people. I've saved a life or two.
Shawl
You know, the other thing about you that now that I'm hearing I mean, obviously, you know, watching these videos made me happy but you as a person, I think you have such positivity. Where do you think that comes from and how do you keep that?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, I think that, um, that there are a lot of things in this world that can drain you of that. People personality types, criticism, haters, as they call them, but I think that you try to put everything in perspective. And, and I always try to reflect and you see that some of that in my blog post and it's like introspection, and reflecting on what reflecting on what matters most. And I think that health, you know, health is wealth, and just, you know, you know, being alive, being able to run and clear my mind when I want, you know, not being wheelchair bound, not having a life, terminal illness or diagnosis. having really good friends, I have some, like amazing friends, I mean, and a good amount of them, like people that would stop what they're doing and come out here if I needed them to immediately if they could, you know, that's, I mean, that's rare. I mean, these things that I used it take for granted not because I knew I was taking it for granted, but because I wasn't appreciating it. And now that I've seen more of the hardships of life, whether from myself or from colleagues or from co workers or from patients, then you start to really appreciate what it is.
Shawl
So gratitude for you is a big part of being positive and keeping that sort of strong is gratitude.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Gratitude is the attitude and it's it's just everything it's just everything.
Shawl
Oh, I love that gratitude is the attitude. Um, I want to go back and talk about sort of being a young black doctor and sort of right when you get out of medical school, tell me what that felt like, you know what your experience was? What did you ever face any discrimination? Did you ever face you know, sort of some inequality being someone who is not you know, being a black man who there's not a lot of black men out Obviously, right, like you said, not a lot of physicians that are black. So how was that for you?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, absolutely. I think that for me, I look at it as it was just incredibly special. I really like walking across the stage the first time you hear Dr. Jason Campbell, I mean, oh, man, goosebumps. I mean, really. And so, you know, taking that I think that you realize you get here and you realize why I still have a lot to learn, like I'm here. But I still have a ways to go. But I mean, gosh, how far have I come? I mean, everyone, I was just pre med in Manassas, Virginia, at George Mason University, Health Sciences Campus, you know, on Sunday road and at a Starbucks studying at 11pm at night, East Coast time. And now, you know, I didn't get to Columbus, Ohio and the Ohio State and now to be out here in Portland and you're just like, Wow, man, you have just been through it and just kept going. You have just kept going. And so yeah, until you know What you're saying is it's it's very special. And it's why I get back in these high schools out here where there aren't necessarily a lot of minorities, I say, Hey, you know that just like the kid down the way in the private school, who knows he's going to be a doctor, you too can know you're going to be a doctor.
Shawl
Have you ever had a time where because I mean, again, knowing some people who've gone through the medical school process and the whole sort of residency and everything, there can be some low moments, too. I mean, there's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of stress, there's competition. So how did you deal with that when you were faced with that?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, so I think that for me, I was always I'm a competitive guy, you know, on the track. And, and competitive in like, I want to be, you know, doing the latest research if we can or writing the latest articles or publications. I mean, there's a lot of grit and grind that I have. But I also want to help others. I mean, I wanna, you know, I never thought that because I succeed, you can't succeed. You know, you and I can both succeed. Whether we look alike or not, I just felt there's a lot of, there's a lot of gap in this world that needs to be bridge. And I can't bridge it all myself. So that was always my mindset. But I always try to set myself up to be, you know, one foot in front of the other, set myself up for success. But, Success to me meant, you know, together we go further and that's what you see on my blog and you see that you talk about the pressure I wrote about anxiety, that things that I've dealt with anxiety and overcoming that and and not even overcoming, utilizing it to enhance who I am accepting it, not fighting it. You know, I think with mental health, we want to fight it a lot. And I'm saying we don't need to fight it. We need to accept it. Like we would accept, you know, a rolled ankle, like we would accept a torn hamstring like, oh, like, why did that hamstring tear because you are working hard? Why are you feeling that anguish mentally because you're working hard. You're This is a dream that you're trying to pursue and, and achieve so yeah,
Shawl
I love that and you know, I think it's something that I really tried to do is I tried to de-stigmatize mental health. And I appreciate you saying that, because I do think it is something that I mean, like you said, if you had a, if you had a broken arm, you'd go see a doctor for that, or you'd go get help for that. Or you'd go figure out what that is and why that happened, right? Or help heal it. So you know, it's not something to be ashamed or embarrassed about it is, it's, it's just like anything else health related, where you might need to get help for it, or you might need to figure it out and accept it and you know, maybe medicines, maybe you know, drugs are part of that maybe a health professional is part of that. Maybe it's just a journey on your own with your family and friends. Whatever it is, I love the fact that you're saying that because it starts with acceptance. And it starts with everybody accepting that it's, you know, we're all on that equal playing field where we've all been there. Right?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Right. Right now it's all about it's all about acceptance. And in a part just not worth focusing on what their thought about who you are is, what is your thought about who you are.
Shawl
I think that goes back to also talking about what you were saying about being competitive. Because, you know, how, when you look at your competition, it's not that you can just, you're the only one that can have this spot, we can both succeed, and I can relate to that being an actor. And when I'm up for a role with multiple different women that might look sort of similar to me. I know that I'm me, and I'm bringing my unique self. So I think it also goes back to what you're saying about like, you have your own set of talents and uniqueness that you're going to be bringing.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Absolutely and yeah, you always go back to for me as a runner, right that when you're, you know, a runner or a boxer with a mental game maybe even happens before the physical. You know, before the start line, you're already thinking, what is my plan? What am I going to do? When am I going to let it rip? When am I going to let it cut? And just be authentic and go. And so I love the overlap that you have as a runner with that and life because it's there's so many similarities, right? And so I've always thought back to that thought back to old coaches, my father, just different things that people always said to me when it was like, Oh, I can't do another another Rep. petition. It's like, but you can I say, Oh, I'm tired. You've been more tired. I say, Oh, I don't want to go for a run. Well, you don't want to start that. You know, you want to you don't want to damage howdy start. So I think that like you said, it's one of those things where there's so much Overlay and then like I said, like it The competition was always here within.
Shawl
I appreciate that so much because it's what you were saying earlier about perspective and that sort of ties in here to again, it's it's not about The other person, it's not about viewing the other person as competition. It's really viewing what you have to offer and, and shifting that perspective to be about yourself. And that competition is within yourself, like you said. But switching gears a little bit. Now, I know I asked you this earlier, I wanted to go back to it. Um, have you ever faced discrimination in the workplace? Or do you know anyone who has and
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, I do. I haven't faced overt discrimination in the workplace, maybe a microaggression or two that I tried, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt whether that's the right thing to do or not, that's just my thing to do. But I do know about...I know, a colleague that has had, you know, I don't want your services because because you're black and, you know, and, you know, for him I know that was very, I think, very tough, caught him off guard and you know, I try to even though I give you a bit of doubt I don't let anything surprise me these days, you know, I walk into someone's room, I'm expecting them to be nice and kind and see my smile, or at least my smile with my mask, underneath my mask and return it. But I don't, I don't I just don't get surprised, but I've never faced it. But I do know that when it happens, it's a sad world. It's very frustrating for everybody involved.
Shawl
Yeah, it's disarming, for sure. And it, you know, I know that you You're such an advocate for being open about talking about racism and talking about that on your social and so that's why I'm asking and I'm curious, do you think that there's a reason behind that bias? Or is there an explanation that you've found or with other black colleagues of why people, do they not trust a black doctor? Do they not think that they've gone to school? I don't know what the bias are.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, you know, some people are coming from places where, you know, I explained to you earlier, what I grew up with, with Howard University, and seeing all these black physicians and clinicians and researchers and research scientists, but there are people that grew up where like the black guy is a football coach or the black guy they know is a janitor. You know, the hospital has not one black physician or not one black medical provider. And then to come in and well, you know, I I challenged her to want to be open. I I don't know if I want to blame them for so they never seen when I was such a privileged life where I have seen so much. You know, I think that, you know, we can't forget that some people don't know any better. But it's tough, right? You see that a tech CEO out in California, like he knows better when he's yelling at that Asian family to leave the restaurant, calling them names and, you know, cursing at them. You know, better and you're doing that when people don't know better and have never seen anything different. It's interesting. Yeah. It makes you think right.
Shawl
Yeah, definitely. And I appreciate the fact that there is a part of, of society that are a part of communities that are not given, you know, the experience to have that representation in their community, but what I think is incredible about what you're doing, and what so many people are doing is using their platform, right? Because most everybody has social media. Right?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Right.
Shawl
And and I think that's where technology is really powerful, where it's opened us up out of our community, perhaps, to see different faces to see different people to see the Tik Toc Doc, and say, Oh, he's fun, but Oh, wait a minute. I'm loving these videos. He's also a doctor. Oh, look, look at all the staff that he's working with and how
Dr. Jason Campbell
diverse
Shawl
how diverse they are, and how different they are. And so, again, I just appreciate that you're using your platform in many ways to spotlight on that and to help people sort of see that which is really cool.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, yeah, thank you so much.
Shawl
Now I want of course, I want to talk about how COVID has impacted the hospital. And if you can talk a little bit about that and your experience there, because I mean, obviously ppe situation, the fact that, you know, doctors and nurses and our health care professionals are not given the actual materials and tools and uniforms and things they need to do their job. How has that been for you? And how are you staying positive through that? Because I know you are.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yes. Well, you know, on one hand, you know, out here in Oregon, we've been very fortunate that through I think leadership, our governor, I think, making some strict and maybe not always favorable decisions, that we have kept our numbers lower. There's an uptick now and an upswing across the country. And even for us, it's still a bit lower, for sure than the Texas, Florida, California, you know, I think your state is doing great with wearing masks, things that people are saying, hey, this may not be for me, but it's for someone that cannot protect themselves. You know, me, social distancing may not be for me, but it's for somebody else that maybe cannot protect themselves with their immune system that still wants to be outside and deserves the right to try to get through this time, and weather this mental and physical storm. And so in our hospital, we saw, as we saw, maybe a little bit of an upswing, but things were, you know, operations went way down. And, you know, the surgeries that had, you know, elective surgeries were halted. It was just urgent and emergent, and I was on my cardiac anesthesiology rotation during that time. So, we were still rolling and I was still learning and still seeing the, the anxiety, the anger, the nervousness that all of us I think felt, you know, just not knowing like, you know, cuz tests, were still just kind of rolling out. So I was like, are they positive? Are they not, but we're going to treat them as though they are positive and protect them to protect ourselves. But now with this upswing again, you're seeing Like some, you know, maybe more staff and stuff like that potentially get sick. And you know what we thought might have happened the first time. So it's really important that when we talk about wearing masks, for the civilians, you're hoping that you will recognize the need to keep you safe, keep you out of the hospital so we can protect those that are hospitalized for other reasons. And then there'll be those that unfortunately, do get hospitalized with severe respiratory issues or for other reasons relating around COVID. So yeah, it's been it's been, it's been tough. It's been tough, but trying to keep perspective, keep hopes up, a smile, a dance, a laugh, and just recognize that we'll get through this because, you know, other doctors have gone through things, right? This isn't the first thing and it's not gonna be the last thing that I go through in my career. But it's definitely you know, you got to recognize that this is, um, it's a if we don't work together, it's gonna be a lot harder and take a lot longer to get through this.
Shawl
Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. And I think that, like you said, I mean, we're all in this together. We all impact each other, especially with something like this. So
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. How's New York, if you don't mind me asking.
Shawl
Well, you know, New York I think is it they put into place a lot of things again, our governor I think for the most part, actually, New York in general was pretty positive towards the changes he was making. I haven't seen a lot of dissenters in all honesty about that. And I think that was the right way to go. You know, I mean, we really took action quickly. And therefore, we're seeing the results of that, even though, you know, I'm sure there are, I do still see people not wearing masks or hanging or you know, now that it's summertime, there are restaurants where people are sitting outside and, you know, maybe the tables are not the six feet apart. And there's like groups of people hanging out that don't have mask on. Yeah. And so that's where it's a little it's a little frustrating. I you know, it's funny, I was walking down the street here. There was a group of young, they were all young, pretty young, sitting at a bar outside all, you know, at a bar table that's like the stools are next to each other. And this older woman, this very old lady who had a mask, was pushing this little cart right next to them. And I just thought to myself, no, she has her mask on, but none of you do. And she's so senior that if we both, if we all had masks, and we're all doing the protective measures that we need to do to protect her. right because she's doing what she needs to do, but she's the one who's vulnerable.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Right? The selfishness is startling. And the selflessness I wish there was more of right now. Yeah. And there are a lot of people that are doing the right thing. There really are Sure, yes, yeah, let's not, you know, but I'm five months out of your life. It's not that long to get through something like this. It's just not in the grand scheme. With each race he talks about, again, how do I say positive perspective?
Shawl
Yeah. I love that. Um, did you ever have to isolate at all with COVID? Or like, stay away from home? You live with your do you live with your girlfriend?
Dr. Jason Campbell
No, she has a house and I have one.
Shawl
So you don't live together?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Don't live together. It's been, obviously spending a lot of time together. So haven't had to isolate in that sense. She got tested and was negative. So you know, but like, I guess while she was waiting for her test, I was like, I'll just kind of stay away for a little bit, make sure that you're you're okay, because she, as a nurse has seen a lot of covid you know, in the hospitalized and the hospitalized setting and so I you know, I just you know, make sure you know where your mask and just please be careful. As I know, you and all of your colleagues are doing and then and then you know regarding kind of here my my family's all in DC you know, everybody's a DC and like a 810 mile radius, including my 96 year old grandmother. Amen.
Shawl
Oh, wow. Oh my gosh
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah, totally. Yeah. She turns 97
Shawl
Is she Nana, is she grandma? Like who is she? to grandma?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Grandma Flo.
Shawl
She's kicking it.
Dr. Jason Campbell
She's living I need to call her I write, I write about her on my blog. And for an article that was posted to the Oregonian about voting, and black woman voting and what she's seen in her 90 at the time in her 95 years, and I'm hoping to come up with another article about her for this year and the election. So yeah, yeah.
Shawl
that's, that's incredible. Um, yeah, I know, I know, a lot of people are missing their family. I mean, again, technology is so awesome that we get to FaceTime and we get to have that interaction, but it's, it's not the same as seeing them in person. Right, but I'm so glad that she's healthy, and well and still kickin it. Exactly. You're now your girlfriend. I mean, obviously, you're both healthcare professionals, but you're also in an interracial relationship right now.
Dr. Jason Campbell
I am I am. First time Yeah,
Shawl
Really?
Dr. Jason Campbell
no, second time. Second time. Yep.
Shawl
So how has that been? Again, with everything that's going on in the world? How have you two faced sort of have you ever faced anything? I mean, I'm assuming most of your friends and colleagues are obviously not. Have you ever faced anything though? Like, from people outside of your friend base?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. interracial dating is an interesting thing. I think that you have, you don't necessarily hear as much. I don't think about whites. I don't have a problem with that. But I definitely think I know that there are some Blacks that do, for sure. And unfortunately, in 2020, you thought we'd be really past that. But with other leadership flaws, we've kind of circle back to what I guess for some would feel like 1960 as my Grandma would remind me things that she grew up with that she never, I don't think could have imagined seeing you In her maybe last few years on Earth, I mean, so I think that that's a bit troubling but I mean everybody's entitled to their own opinion but yeah, I think that for sure it's been one of those things where it's been, you know, it's it's different like I was dating Black women, there's other comments or things that never were an issue you know, it's like oh, good, you know, that's what we expect and then you know, and then this is different. But you know, out here in Oregon there are a lot of interracial couples Actually, I would say more than I actually was accustomed to just coming from like DC and the East Coast and stuff. And it is a little bit different and to kind of be in that category and you know, I just take it but but Rachel's special I think that it wasn't about in ratios about the person and trying to realize like who's a person that can match you, you know, match my energy not necessary with energy herself but kind of curtail that and hone in on that and and makes me a better person and you know, can push me as much as I push myself and they can pull me back when she's like, this is not the right thing. This is too much. You know, yet for someone like me as a So my ex girlfriends would allude to it takes a lot.
Shawl
Um, I, you know, I appreciate that you said that it's about the person because I'm also in an interracial relationship. My husband is white. And I think that it's super important that it's not it's, it's about who that person is, and what the two of you together are building and how the two people influence each other and help each other grow and the friendship and all of those things are really what's important. Yes, when it comes to a relationship and and finding someone that matches you, I like I like the way that you said that is match for you.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Because I you know, you for me, you know, you just can't take anyone or everyone home to mama like you know it has, it just really has to be a good fit. Yes. And that fit is across the board. Like cultural. Not just competence but like awareness. Doesn't mean to be Black to be aware, but you certainly you know, I'm not gonna use like little you know, funny funny. Funny. I'm not just gonna use like funny little things and say, you know, oh, a woke no I just but seriousness like awareness, understand understanding, Desire to Learn desire to support, you know you can't be someone who's like Oh, why are you going to that silly march like you know?, sit down like oh not gonna work. Yep not gonna work gonna work.
Shawl
Yeah, um Well, again, I think you also sharing about your relationship and also posting on your platform again, these are all ways that you are spreading that awareness about your life. And I mean, it's just I'm giddy again to talk to you because I think you're so smart. You're so positive. What is next for you with sort of what's happened right with your platform and with the Tik Tok Doc, is it going to be obviously more videos that we love? You mentioned your blog. Is there anything that you're gonna do there?
Dr. Jason Campbell
Yeah. I think both so so we got some videos coming. out just getting creative during COVID to show wearing mask, distancing, but still smiling, having fun, okay, with the blog, it's a chance for me now to look at where we're going in the future still writing, writing you know, therapeutic for me, I started writing in, in medical school, you know, I had, I had one of my professors who was like, okay, like, we need to work on this studying piece. But damn, you can write, you know, and I was like, Okay, well, if you go say like that, and I am on to something, and so and so that's where that and so that's where that came from. And so for me, I want to ensure that moving forward, I keep writing to share how I'm feeling, share thoughts, ideologies, defy stereotypes. And I think that's really where I think the Tik Tok doc is going because there's always a chance to dance. But understanding and highlighting, illuminating the mission is what the next step is what the next phase is getting a chance to talk to people like you to stay in touch with you like you and to say hey, like thank you for being here. giving me a chance to speak on two topics that are so important desire to want to hear my voice. And so as long as people want a chance to talk with me, I want to talk with them. And so I think that's what's, what's next.
Shawl
Oh, I, I adore that. And I, I actually when you were talking writing, was dancing a part of your life to? Youre really good dancer.
Dr. Jason Campbell
I know when I yeah, I like I was, um, so the Washington mystics I see I know, you know, NBA NW NBA, the Wb 18 for DC the Washington misses had a junior hip hop dance squad that I did for two summers. Yeah, yeah, the mystics mayhem and the first summer I was there and I'm like, trying to learn the moves and I couldn't remember them. Like, man, this guy ain't worth nothing. You know, I did this season. It was fun. They kind of made fun of me. I did my little breakdancing stuff. They liked it, you know, came back the next year and I was like, I mean, I was like Justin Timberlake back up there. So I was like, right, left, two, three enemy. They were like, oh, Jason's back. with vengeance
Shawl
You were bringing it
Dr. Jason Campbell
I got the most improved dancer award. And that's like, I have all all these awards. I have a medical degree on my wall. I got what else I have. I have a master's degree on my wall. I got a Volunteer of the Year award from my high school. That award, dancer of the year is one of the most memorable and valuable awards and I was basically in a group of, you know, young Blacks and whites are like, this guy's not from around where we're from, doesn't talk like us, but he's fun. He's energetic. You know, he's, he's he he's coming into this awkwardness, and he's not running away. So yeah, so that's where the dancing started. That's where the dancing started. Here we are.
Shawl
Oh, I love that. I love that. It's also the most improved award because that shows that you also put the work in, you know, like, there were some work in there. There was some passion and there was some care that went into that to show up even better next time around. Right now and again, you know, just chatting with you. That doesn't surprise me. I mean that jumps off of you. I feel like as a person. Jason, this has been just incredible. I'm so excited to see where your missions gonna take you. I want to see and hear how many lives you touch because I'm sure there are young people, young black men. Have you heard have you heard messages from, have you already gotten messages.
Dr. Jason Campbell
I've got it I got a message from young young black men, young black boys that are striving or their parents. I've had a chance to talk to some high school students, I say the same thing, messages from patients. It's been very special and just reminds me like, keep going, keep doing what you're doing. Don't worry about peers that have negative things to say because there are a small percentage compared to those that are like this is I don't have a mentor and you're serving as one even from 60,000 miles away.
Shawl
I I just again, I adore you I think you shine. I think, again, the name of this podcast is Feel the Good. I mean, you are you are bringing the good, you're making people happy, you're feeling good, you're positive and you're spreading good in so many different ways. So really, I mean, I can't thank you enough for giving me the time to really get to know you a little bit better because I'm so impressed by you. Jason also, I asked people, what nonprofit do you care about or what organizations do you care about and want to advocate for now that people can either donate to or support in the way that they can?
Dr. Jason Campbell
I grew up as a Boys and Girls Club kid. So the Boys and Girls Clubs of America are I'm huge in the you know, we had like the fourth fifth sixth grade basketball team. We were the jazz he always got beat by the Chicago by the bulls. A lot of very similar Michael Jordan until we finally won. So love the Boys and Girls Clubs and any initiatives that support Black Lives Matter. I also would love to see you guys donate if you if you have a little extra, extra change lying around. I mean the world to me.
Shawl
Perfect. Are there specific organizations with Black Lives Matter? Is there one that sticks out to you?
Dr. Jason Campbell
No, yeah, there's not one sticks out to me. I mean, definitely, you know, definitely Please do your vetting to make sure that it's a legitimate one. But if you had definitely supports anti racism and anti racism, and encouragement as what we need right now in 2020. Okay,
Shawl
Perfect. And I know you're always posting fundraisers and stuff on your social. So again, you guys, I'll post all that in the Episode Notes. And you can follow Jason if you're not already, and see what he's advocating for and what he wants you to support.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Thank you. Thank you. And I'll say Lastly, that people always ask you if you have to do a specific Boys and Girls Club. The one off of our street in Washington DC is one that I grew up going to so if you must then our street Northwest DC jealous Boys and Girls Club. Thanks guys.
Shawl
Um, the way I end out the show is I do this thing called Feel the Five and I'm going to give you five words. And you just say the first thing that comes to mind.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Okay, sounds good. Okay.
Shawl
Here we go. Feel the Five. Home.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Mama.
Shawl
Joy,
Dr. Jason Campbell
Rachel.
Shawl
Fear.
Dr. Jason Campbell
Anxiety
Shawl
Regret
Dr. Jason Campbell
Nothing.
Shawl
Hope
Dr. Jason Campbell
Dreams.
Shawl
Okay. Feel the Five with Dr. Jason Campbell everybody The Tik Tok Doc. Again, Jason, thank you so much for this valuable time. I will make sure everyone to tag Jason's resources in the Episode Notes, his blogs, you can go check that out, his social, you can check out his dancing videos. Please, I urge you to dance, dance. My daughter and I watched them together Jason Oh, when we dance it out because we that's a big thing in our house that again to to get out the negativity or if we're having a low day or a rough day or really, honestly, even if we're not if we just want to have fun, like why not dance it out so you won't be seeing my dance it out moves the way Jason's dance moves are
Dr. Jason Campbell
We gotta get her on the tic tok, don't let her get out of it.
Shawl
Okay. Well, and maybe if you're in New York City, we can you can you can, you can loop me in. I can't promise that I'm going to be given as much support as all the other colleagues you have that are dancing it up
Dr. Jason Campbell
there so good. will make you good. Okay. Okay. I believe that again, thank you so much. A pleasure was all mine. Thank you for having me. Have a wonderful day.
Shawl
You too. (END INTERVIEW)
Shawl
(OUTRO) Man, y'all. If Dr. Jason Campbell does not scream Feel the Good. I don't know who does. So many great little gems in that conversation. perspective can be a superpower. We talked about perspective a lot. We talked about how Jason uses that as a place to view things positively, we can change our perspective, and we can use it to view things differently. And I just really appreciated that he brought that up. And then he also lives. I mean, you could tell throughout the entire conversation and it came up a lot and various different examples throughout his life so perspective can be a superpower. I also thought that what he said about not putting your life on hold and living day to day he was talking about that with his pre med career and when he was in school, and we were talking about, if it's, you know, during that time, you're studying so hard and you're working towards something, and you're giving up a lot. And he actually said he, again twisted the perspective a bit and said, you know, actually, no, I mean, I didn't put my life on hold. I just lived day to day and enjoyed those days for what they were. And I think that's super important to to not always be looking towards what's ahead, and to really be enjoying sort of what we're in now. So I very much appreciated that.
Shawl
He said, health is wealth. Gratitude is the attitude. Of course y'all know that. I appreciated that because I open every one of my episodes with something that I'm grateful for, because I do believe that that is the attitude and that it does automatically put you in a positive headspace. Like I've said What he said about competition was really fascinating. And accepting that and that there's you, you have the power within yourself, you have to look at it as what do you bring, don't look at what the other person's doing, or what the other person's bringing only look at what you're bringing and what you've got. And competition comes from within yourself. And when we were chatting about our situation that our country is in right now, with the pandemic, of course, he said, we're all in this together, because we are. And I just think that he is someone that completely showcases that that community spirit, that kindness, that positivity. And look, he got the most improved award for his dancing skills because he's such a hard worker because he's so passionate. Not that you'd be able to tell now when you're watching Tik Tok videos because, man is he an amazing dancer. But I just, gosh, I'm still just so giddy because not only does it make me happy now that we've had this conversation, he makes me even happier because I can tell he is, and I hope all of you could tell to I mean, I think we all could tell that he is such a genuine person. He is doing good. by lifting others up with what he's creating. He's also doing good with His profession. He's also spreading good and with his platform and the things that he advocates for. And he's, he's making all of us feel good and feel good. So I encourage all of you to go follow his blog, please go support the nonprofits he mentioned, you know, the Boys and Girls Club of America. He mentioned this specific one that he participated in in Virginia, but of course, I'm sure he'll take donations to any of the Boys and Girls Club. And again, if you can't donate, that's okay. You can support other ways you can advocate you can spread awareness. So many ways you can support some of these nonprofits that my guests will be sharing. And please do go follow his journey on his blog. You heard it from him writing is another one of his passions, let's support him in that, let's uplift that for him. So he's got his blog, which I will tag in the Episode Notes and go follow his social and his Tic Toc videos, I guarantee you, they will make you smile, they will make you laugh, they will just literally uplift you in a second. I guarantee it. And I just want to say you know, let's go dance it out. Let's just dance it out. Dancing out right now. I hope you do. And as always Feel the Good. All the love and light and have a great week! (END OUTRO)